Comments on: Top Down vs. Bottom Up at GeoWeb 2009 http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/08/07/top-down-vs-bottom-up-at-geoweb-2009/ News and updates from GeoIQ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:02:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Sean Gorman http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/08/07/top-down-vs-bottom-up-at-geoweb-2009/#comment-1097 Sean Gorman Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:34:58 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1158#comment-1097 Hi Ian, I really enjoyed your talk at GeoWeb and you make a very strong case. I don't think it is an either or, and definitely plenty of room for both. I'm assuming business-B2B means the enterprise - fortune 1000 etc. If so I'm curious where the adoptions have been for GML+SOAP. I might just be ignorant of it, but largely I don't see the majority of enterprises doing either (GML+SOAP or KML+REST). Not convinced anyone has come up with the solution that makes a geospatial implemtnation palatable to the vast majority of enterprises. A big greenfield that needs to be figured out no doubt. Maybe GML+SOAP is the answer I've just not seen a large market adoption of it or anything else for that matter in the enterprise. best, sean Hi Ian,

I really enjoyed your talk at GeoWeb and you make a very strong case. I don’t think it is an either or, and definitely plenty of room for both. I’m assuming business-B2B means the enterprise – fortune 1000 etc. If so I’m curious where the adoptions have been for GML+SOAP. I might just be ignorant of it, but largely I don’t see the majority of enterprises doing either (GML+SOAP or KML+REST). Not convinced anyone has come up with the solution that makes a geospatial implemtnation palatable to the vast majority of enterprises. A big greenfield that needs to be figured out no doubt. Maybe GML+SOAP is the answer I’ve just not seen a large market adoption of it or anything else for that matter in the enterprise.

best,
sean

]]> By: Ian Painter http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/08/07/top-down-vs-bottom-up-at-geoweb-2009/#comment-1096 Ian Painter Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:04:02 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1158#comment-1096 Sean, I did a Top Down talk at GeoWeb and had the pleasure of defending SOAP in the SOAP vs REST vs PERR2PEER. Well the SOAP vrs REST was really quite fun at GeoWeb (it even got me my first appearance on Geek TV). Anyway, the Neogeographers were out in force defending REST at GeoWeb and their view seems to be if you can't access it in the browser its not in the GeoWeb, in my mind this doesn't hold up. What about B2B? Are people really saying the GeoWeb is not about B2B data exchange. This got me thinking that there are two distinct communities in the GeoWeb. Taking a mathematical approach I think the GeoWeb can be defined as: GeoWeb = B2B + B2C (the C being customer or citizen). Refining that further, GML over SOAP is best methodology to orchestra business data exchange and KML over REST is the simplest method to get data to the citizen. So I came up with this formula GeoWeb = (GML+SOAP) + (KML+REST). Now I do agree with you that the REST and Bottom Up solves about 80% of the use cases (and that this is only going to grow) but there are scenarios where Top Down and rigours of SOAP are the only option. Aviation is a great example of this, an complex data model, safety critical, cross business and country data exchange. Its clear that strong standard bodies like ICAO need to set international standards from the top down in order to create safe environment. It maybe that the Top Down approach gets less popular but it will never go away. Ian Sean,

I did a Top Down talk at GeoWeb and had the pleasure of defending SOAP in the SOAP vs REST vs PERR2PEER. Well the SOAP vrs REST was really quite fun at GeoWeb (it even got me my first appearance on Geek TV). Anyway, the Neogeographers were out in force defending REST at GeoWeb and their view seems to be if you can’t access it in the browser its not in the GeoWeb, in my mind this doesn’t hold up. What about B2B? Are people really saying the GeoWeb is not about B2B data exchange. This got me thinking that there are two distinct communities in the GeoWeb. Taking a mathematical approach I think the GeoWeb can be defined as: GeoWeb = B2B + B2C (the C being customer or citizen). Refining that further, GML over SOAP is best methodology to orchestra business data exchange and KML over REST is the simplest method to get data to the citizen. So I came up with this formula GeoWeb = (GML+SOAP) + (KML+REST). Now I do agree with you that the REST and Bottom Up solves about 80% of the use cases (and that this is only going to grow) but there are scenarios where Top Down and rigours of SOAP are the only option. Aviation is a great example of this, an complex data model, safety critical, cross business and country data exchange. Its clear that strong standard bodies like ICAO need to set international standards from the top down in order to create safe environment. It maybe that the Top Down approach gets less popular but it will never go away.

Ian

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