Comments on: The Once and Future Map: The Destiny of GIS http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/ News and updates from GeoIQ Wed, 23 May 2012 08:01:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Chris http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-3460 Chris Tue, 04 Oct 2011 16:14:12 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-3460 As long as outsourcing is there to fall back on for companies and governments there will be NO stable GIS job industry. I started at the ground floor in GIS back in 1988. Our company was the biggest user of ESRI software back than and a beta test site for ESRI. That company I worked for is now out of business and my GIS job and all others at that company are now in India. I now have my own small GIS company and it is near impossible to get work. I mostly just do maps, I can't get real GIS work since it all goes straight to Bangalore India now! This is a cold hard fact I live with and see everyday. People planning to get into GIS need to know this up front. I think GIS will die as full blown software packages and evolve more into user friendly standalone apps on tablets and smart devices. The current problem with GIS is the public does not use it, only the software users use it and create data for other GIS software users. GIS was going to be this great save-all public information device. This is what ESRI was pushing, but it NEVER really happened. The only GIS stuff people might see is a pdf map posted on some city site that was made with GIS software. Google was had more of an indirect impact with the public with spatial data and GIS. Google Earth could be the next really BIG step in the advancement of GIS. If Google added more GIS tools to Google Earth it would advance GIS growth and data creation 1000 times more than ESRI and the census has. However, a free interface in Google Earth would not go over big with the GIS professionals with Master and PhD level degrees, since they would not be in control and people would know longer need the ESRI software to get things done by professional GIS people. Also, the biggest factor is the biggest customer of GIS software. It is 2011 and the government sectors are now broke and can no longer afford to spend vast sums of money on high-end GIS software. I can see many going to the free software like QGIS and having people in India doing more work and writing more of the software and plugins for software like QGIS. It is cheaper, and still advances GIS. As long as outsourcing is there to fall back on for companies and governments there will be NO stable GIS job industry.

I started at the ground floor in GIS back in 1988. Our company was the biggest user of ESRI software back than and a beta test site for ESRI. That company I worked for is now out of business and my GIS job and all others at that company are now in India. I now have my own small GIS company and it is near impossible to get work. I mostly just do maps, I can’t get real GIS work since it all goes straight to Bangalore India now! This is a cold hard fact I live with and see everyday. People planning to get into GIS need to know this up front.

I think GIS will die as full blown software packages and evolve more into user friendly standalone apps on tablets and smart devices. The current problem with GIS is the public does not use it, only the software users use it and create data for other GIS software users. GIS was going to be this great save-all public information device. This is what ESRI was pushing, but it NEVER really happened. The only GIS stuff people might see is a pdf map posted on some city site that was made with GIS software.
Google was had more of an indirect impact with the public with spatial data and GIS. Google Earth could be the next really BIG step in the advancement of GIS. If Google added more GIS tools to Google Earth it would advance GIS growth and data creation 1000 times more than ESRI and the census has. However, a free interface in Google Earth would not go over big with the GIS professionals with Master and PhD level degrees, since they would not be in control and people would know longer need the ESRI software to get things done by professional GIS people.

Also, the biggest factor is the biggest customer of GIS software. It is 2011 and the government sectors are now broke and can no longer afford to spend vast sums of money on high-end GIS software. I can see many going to the free software like QGIS and having people in India doing more work and writing more of the software and plugins for software like QGIS. It is cheaper, and still advances GIS.

]]> By: Sean Gorman http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1139 Sean Gorman Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:27:24 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1139 Hi Jeff, Thanks for the response. Definitely agree about education and new directions for spatial cognition. When it comes to walled gardens - I don't mean among GIS professional. They've always been a collaborative group that generally works well together. The wall has been between the end users and the GIS professionals. Maps go out from GIS professional and they have discussions and data sharing amongst themselves. There is mechanism for non-GIS users to join the conversation, to put their own data on the map, make their own combination of layers. That is where I see the wall currently although it is rapidly being removed in my opinion. which a much bigger pool of people interested in being educated and learning about spatial cognition and such. best, sean Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the response. Definitely agree about education and new directions for spatial cognition. When it comes to walled gardens – I don’t mean among GIS professional. They’ve always been a collaborative group that generally works well together. The wall has been between the end users and the GIS professionals. Maps go out from GIS professional and they have discussions and data sharing amongst themselves. There is mechanism for non-GIS users to join the conversation, to put their own data on the map, make their own combination of layers. That is where I see the wall currently although it is rapidly being removed in my opinion. which a much bigger pool of people interested in being educated and learning about spatial cognition and such.

best,
sean

]]> By: Jeff Thurston http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1138 Jeff Thurston Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:17:03 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1138 I don't think GIS folks have considered it a walled garden. For the most part everyone involved in spatial technologies has been a pioneer and blazing a trail to a new frontier - sometimes right, sometimes wrong. There are a huge number of basic spatial issues we do not understand. I spoke with a well known photogrammetrist recently and he pointed to factors like how the brain connects to visual cues. In other areas we only have to look at culture as it influences how people create maps. It would be helpful if more education folks took a leadership position toward revealing new areas of study and pursuit and caused people to think wider. On the other hand, perhaps the print industry will become the new digital communicators. They understand design, fonts, lines and communication. Keep up the good work. I like the maps you folks produce. I don’t think GIS folks have considered it a walled garden. For the most part everyone involved in spatial technologies has been a pioneer and blazing a trail to a new frontier – sometimes right, sometimes wrong.

There are a huge number of basic spatial issues we do not understand. I spoke with a well known photogrammetrist recently and he pointed to factors like how the brain connects to visual cues. In other areas we only have to look at culture as it influences how people create maps.

It would be helpful if more education folks took a leadership position toward revealing new areas of study and pursuit and caused people to think wider.

On the other hand, perhaps the print industry will become the new digital communicators. They understand design, fonts, lines and communication.

Keep up the good work. I like the maps you folks produce.

]]> By: The end of the ‘ARC/INFO driving licence’ era « Po Ve Sham – Muki Haklay’s personal blog http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1137 The end of the ‘ARC/INFO driving licence’ era « Po Ve Sham – Muki Haklay’s personal blog Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:17:59 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1137 [...] about the future of the GIS ‘profession’ has flared up in recent days – see the comments from Sean Gorman, Steven Feldman (well, citing me) and Don Meltz among others. My personal perspective is about the [...] [...] about the future of the GIS ‘profession’ has flared up in recent days – see the comments from Sean Gorman, Steven Feldman (well, citing me) and Don Meltz among others. My personal perspective is about the [...]

]]> By: To What End, GIS? : GIS Lounge - Geographic Information Systems http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1136 To What End, GIS? : GIS Lounge - Geographic Information Systems Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:35:48 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1136 [...] The Once and Future Map, The Destiny of GIS – Sean Gorman [...] [...] The Once and Future Map, The Destiny of GIS – Sean Gorman [...]

]]> By: Grady Meehan http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1135 Grady Meehan Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:10:22 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1135 I agree completely. Standing alone, in isolation, GIS doesn't have a future that is assured. Business geography is the integration of GEOGRAPHIC REASONING + geographic technology (GIS) + geographic (geocoded) data to support the business decision (defined in Grant Thrall's book on, "Business Geography...."). Geographic reasoning is analogous to statistical reasoning, since it is critically important in complex data analysis and problem-solving. Too many people focus on the software, thinking that a two day introductory enables the atended to become an expert. SAS and SPSS are only technologies used by statisticians to leverage their ability to harness and analyze large datasets to solve complex problems. Again, knowing how to use the software doesn't enable the user to solve complex statistical problems for decision-making. GIS combines graphic capabilities of CAD software, database operations for data management and data query, with extended capabilities for spatial logic and map algebra), map projections (and knowledge of datums), all of which can be extended to include spatial statistics (geo-statistics). Each of these knowledge domains requires extensive study and understanding necessary to integrate each of them into a logical systems of analysis. Geographic visualization (mapping) also requires that the map-making process produces a result that is matched to the perceptual abilities and understanding of the audience. Many graphical functions are built into GIS desktop software but knowledge of audience characteristics is needed to produce an effective product. Most of the above involve geographic reasoning at a hight level. Using basic GIS to create descriptive maps with limited intellectual input just uses technical knowledge much like adding water to a packaged cake mix. I liked this post. More professionals and managers need to understand what you said in this entry. I agree completely. Standing alone, in isolation, GIS doesn’t have a future that is assured.

Business geography is the integration of GEOGRAPHIC REASONING + geographic technology (GIS) + geographic (geocoded) data to support the business decision (defined in Grant Thrall’s book on, “Business Geography….”). Geographic reasoning is analogous to statistical reasoning, since it is critically important in complex data analysis and problem-solving.

Too many people focus on the software, thinking that a two day introductory enables the atended to become an expert. SAS and SPSS are only technologies used by statisticians to leverage their ability to harness and analyze large datasets to solve complex problems. Again, knowing how to use the software doesn’t enable the user to solve complex statistical problems for decision-making.

GIS combines graphic capabilities of CAD software, database operations for data management and data query, with extended capabilities for spatial logic and map algebra), map projections (and knowledge of datums), all of which can be extended to include spatial statistics (geo-statistics). Each of these knowledge domains requires extensive study and understanding necessary to integrate each of them into a logical systems of analysis. Geographic visualization (mapping) also requires that the map-making process produces a result that is matched to the perceptual abilities and understanding of the audience. Many graphical functions are built into GIS desktop software but knowledge of audience characteristics is needed to produce an effective product.

Most of the above involve geographic reasoning at a hight level.

Using basic GIS to create descriptive maps with limited intellectual input just uses technical knowledge much like adding water to a packaged cake mix.

I liked this post. More professionals and managers need to understand what you said in this entry.

]]> By: John Nelson http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1134 John Nelson Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:01:49 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1134 Thanks, Sean. You've distilled the unease around a shifting field that, depending on one's perspective, is terrifying and/or exciting. I remember distinctly as a GIS student some years back the paranoia hairs on my neck rising with hints of future obsolescence as each new consumer based map service was released. Your summary of respecting the merits of the consumer and professional is right on. Consumers will continue to provide freshness, data, and innovation, and professionals will (ought) to contribute to frameworks, improvement, and research. This defensive debate is no different than the one going on between Journalists and Bloggers (or, as you mentioned, the debate that went on between statisticians and spreadsheet users). The empowerment and relevance of any professional can be plotted by distinguishing between Training and Education. One locks students into the short term track of tool-bound button pushers and the other enables insight, ideas, and improvement. As the technical playing field levels by increasing access to tools and resources –just like in those other fields, the people with great ideas and capabilities will move the market forward. The danger of irrelevance is not when too many people are interested in your turf –but when nobody is. -John Thanks, Sean. You’ve distilled the unease around a shifting field that, depending on one’s perspective, is terrifying and/or exciting. I remember distinctly as a GIS student some years back the paranoia hairs on my neck rising with hints of future obsolescence as each new consumer based map service was released. Your summary of respecting the merits of the consumer and professional is right on. Consumers will continue to provide freshness, data, and innovation, and professionals will (ought) to contribute to frameworks, improvement, and research. This defensive debate is no different than the one going on between Journalists and Bloggers (or, as you mentioned, the debate that went on between statisticians and spreadsheet users). The empowerment and relevance of any professional can be plotted by distinguishing between Training and Education. One locks students into the short term track of tool-bound button pushers and the other enables insight, ideas, and improvement. As the technical playing field levels by increasing access to tools and resources –just like in those other fields, the people with great ideas and capabilities will move the market forward. The danger of irrelevance is not when too many people are interested in your turf –but when nobody is.
-John

]]> By: What Is This “GIS” Of Which You Speak? « GeoMusings http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1133 What Is This “GIS” Of Which You Speak? « GeoMusings Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:11:28 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1133 [...] of “GIS” (I put that in quotes since I am the one who declared it a myth). James and Sean also weighed with his thoughts on the subject. Like it or not, both are right. The technology that [...] [...] of “GIS” (I put that in quotes since I am the one who declared it a myth). James and Sean also weighed with his thoughts on the subject. Like it or not, both are right. The technology that [...]

]]> By: Sean Gorman http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1132 Sean Gorman Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:49:27 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1132 Thanks Justin and agree Doug. The macroscopic knowledge of GIS professional about theory and method will always be useful. The microscopic skills of complicated button pushing processes will not be. Thanks Justin and agree Doug. The macroscopic knowledge of GIS professional about theory and method will always be useful. The microscopic skills of complicated button pushing processes will not be.

]]> By: Doug McCune http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/10/27/the-once-and-future-map-the-destiny-of-gis/#comment-1131 Doug McCune Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:09:46 +0000 http://blog.fortiusone.com/?p=1189#comment-1131 Ah crap, sorry my comment was jacked there. Those last two paragraphs are repeated and should get removed. Ah crap, sorry my comment was jacked there. Those last two paragraphs are repeated and should get removed.

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